Select Options. In 1987, as a result of their merger with Indianhead Container Corporation, Ball-InCon Glass Packaging Corporationwas formed and the logo BALL in script was discontinued on their packer ware. $24.25, $26.95 Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. Yes, Ball produced a VERY wide variety of containers, including liquor bottles. Are these jars already being sold at this time? AILTEC Glass Food Storage Containers with Lids, [18 Piece] Glass Meal Prep Containers, Glass Containers for Food Storage with Lids, BPA Free & Leak Proof (9 Lids & 9 Containers), BAYCO Glass Food Storage Containers with Lids, [24 Piece] Glass Meal Prep Containers, Airtight Glass Bento Boxes, BPA Free & Leak Proof (12 lids & 12 Containers) - Blue, CREST [10 Pack] Glass Meal Prep Containers, Food Storage Containers with Lids Airtight, Glass Lunch Boxes, Microwave, Oven, Freezer and Dishwasher Safe, 8 Cups/ 63 Oz 4 Piece (2 containers + 2 Lids) Large Glass Food Storage/ Baking Containers with Locking Lids . Stores. My wife and I recently bought a coffee grinding system with Ball jars used as part of the set. D inside a circle mark attributed to Degenhart Art Glass, Cambridge Ohio. Continue Reading David. Most of those jars and bottles would be classed as packer ware, meaning that they were sold empty to various companies (food, beverage, liquor, etc) who then filled them with their own particular products and sold them in retail venues. If there was any lead in the glass, it is chemically and physically impossible for it to leach into whatever is in the jar. Of the many Ball jars Ive seen ALL of them that say Perfect Mason the words are perfectly aligned under Ball. Or perhaps a beverage bottle for soda, fruit juice or some other drink. Bamboo Spice Jars, for Candy, Spices, Coffee Beans, Nuts, Condiments, Cookies, Flour. Ball Corporation headquarters were moved from Muncie to Broomfield (Westminster), Colorado in 1998. (15% off), Sale Price $73.76 Shipping policies vary, but many of our sellers offer free shipping when you purchase from them. $45.92, $56.00 (Especially jar #3) How can I tell when they were made? Have you tried contacting Jarden Home Brands, perhaps by checking for contact info printed on the jar packaging? Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. $15.75. Does shopping on Etsy help support small businesses? tall Ball underneath is ideal. Specifications. Keeps Food Fresh longer, BAYCO 8 Pack Glass Food Storage Containers, Glass Meal Prep Containers, Airtight Glass Storage Containers with Lids - BPA-Free & Leak Proof (8 lids & 8 Containers) 30oz, Vtopmart 78oz Glass Food Storage Jars with Airtight Clamp Lids, 3 Pack Large Kitchen Canisters for Flour, Cereal, Coffee, Pasta and Canning, Square Mason Jars with 8 Chalkboard Labels, Superior Glass Round Meal Prep Containers -3pk (32oz) BPA-free Airtight Food Storage Containers with 100% Leak Proof Locking Lids, Freezer to Oven Safe Great on-the-go Portion Control Lunch Containers, Bayco 9 Pack Glass Meal Prep Containers 3 & 2 & 1 Compartment, Glass Food Storage Containers with Lids, Airtight Glass Lunch Bento Boxes, BPA-Free & Leak Proof (9 lids & 9 Containers) - White, JoyFul by JoyJolt 24pc Borosilicate Glass Storage Containers with Lids. Previous to that it was Ball Bros Glass (until H-W purchased it in the 60s), Schram Glass, and others. Original Price 1,837.73 SEK AB (connected) mark on base of light aqua beer bottle with P 11 code, Ball Bros. Glass Manufacturing Company (1886-1922). Food Storage Container Recommended Uses For Product. However, to the best of my knowledge, lead is generally not added to soda-lime glass formulas. Lovely Condiment Container Glass Containers Go Containers Lids. Free shipping. Photo courtesy of ebay seller Dotdority. Have a 1 gallon amber jug with Ball logo that I believe is 1933 to 1962. 331.36 SEK, 473.37 SEK Fox Terrier shotglass made by Hazel Atlas. Jar #3 is blue in color. Find out more in our Cookies & Similar Technologies Policy. Sellers looking to grow their business and reach more interested buyers can use Etsys advertising platform to promote their items. I broke the lid last night. Typically, orders of $35 USD or more (within the same shop) qualify for free standard shipping from participating Etsy sellers. 53.76 SEK, 67.20 SEK At this time, we are only making 8 and 32 oz sizes, but more are likely in the works. However, you can probably find a copy of that edition online merely by searching ebay.com or bookfinder.com. Although the company was evidently already known as simply Ball Bros in the circa 1882 to 1886 time period, the business was officially incorporated as Ball Brothers Glass Manufacturing Company in 1886. Bob McCullough, Bob, I am not sure if I have seen that mark before. (5% off), Sale Price 334.71 SEK Thank you! After viewing product detail pages, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in. BPA Free & Leak Proof - Microwave, Oven Safe. Read our Cookie Policy. The base is marked with the H over smaller a logo. Diamond-I mark on bottom of amber bottle made by Illinois Glass Company. These 1.18-ounce containers are constructed with firm, durable plastic with color-coded tops that screw on and off easily, according to our tests. KitchenAid Gourmet 4-Sided Stainless Steel Box Grater with Detachable Storage Container, 10 inches tall, Black, Bento Boxes BPA-Free 100% Leak Proof (15 lids,15. This will differ depending on what options are available for the item. Plastic condiment containers are more . Hope this helps a bit, Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Home Supply Delicate Condiment Container Glass Terrarium Glass Containers at the best online prices at eBay! Protect Dinner and Stemware. Turning off personalized advertising opts you out of these sales. Learn more in our Privacy Policy., Help Center, and Cookies & Similar Technologies Policy. M in a circle mark used by Maryland Glass Corporation. It is seen as easier to recycle or re-use and thus more sustainable by consumers. . Choose the options youd like for the order. William Franzen & Sons- W F & S MIL marking on base of amber beer bottle. The jars have the rounded shoulder that slopes from the body diameter to the normal 70mm finish. (16% off), Sale Price $63.00 Delicate Condiment Container Home Supply Condiments Containers Glass Terrarium. As far as a comprehensive plant list, this would be very difficult as nearly every merger or sale in the industry results in a change to the plant number. Vintage Cut Glass English Condiment Jar with Metal Spoon - circa 1960's (992) $35.00 Small Honey Hive Glass Canister, Food Storage, Storage Condiments, Kitchen Storage, Jar & Canister, Clear Glass Canister (155) $72.92 FREE shipping Art Deco Pewter and Glass Condiment Jar (128) $84.55 Twin Condiment Server (263) $9.95 Want to know more? Tray, ice Party Serving bar, Chilled Caddy, bar Garnish Holder on ice, Spice Jars With Label Spice Organizer, Seasoning Organizer Spice Jar Lid, Spice Set Spice Containers, Seasoning Jars Empty 4 oz, Spice Jars Labels Minimalist, Spices Seasonings Sets Spice Bottles, Food Storage Containers - Set of 6-4 Oz Containers with Airtight BPA-Free Locking Lids - Food containers - Microwave & Dishwasher Safe - Small Containers for Snacks Dips etc. Nearly all sand used in glass manufacture has trace amounts of iron in it. 1996-2023, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. D in a diamond mark on base of cobalt blue Bromo-Seltzer bottle made by Dominion Glass Company (Photo courtesy of Tyler Cazes), R inside a sun representation. With powerful tools and services, along with expert support and education, we help creative entrepreneurs start, manage, and scale their businesses. I dont really know where it came from or how we got it, but I am wondering if it is safe to use for food storage. These are the shakers, squeeze bottles, and boats. Minor correction: Balls HQ today is in Broomfield, Colo., not Bloomfield. United States | English (US) | $ (USD). Virtually all of those so-called Buffalo jars are believed to have been manufactured during the 1884 1886 time frame. This means that every time you visit this website you will need to enable or disable cookies again. Colorful Vintage Glass Jars with Wooden Lid, Airtight Seal Storage Jars, Square Seasoning & Spice Jar Set, Kitchen Pantry Organization (102) $19.60 $24.50 (20% off) FREE shipping Elegant Vintage Glass Jars & Metal Condiment Caddy - Salt, Pepper, Sugar w/ Mini Spoon (508) $34.69 My questions about these jars are: Are they rare? I have 3 jars that Ive been trying to find some information on but have not had any luck. ServSense Black 6-Section Vertical Countertop Condiment Organizer with Header Decals - 5 1/8" x 11 7/8" x 22". The Condiment & Topping Station includes 3 different sized containers, 2 large (2-2/3 cups capacity), 2 medium (2 cups), and 1 small (1.5 cups) which are top rack . Cut Glass Condiment Container/Candy Jar/with Lid (538) $21.95 Palachio Seasoning Container with Collapsible Spoon | Spice Jar with Lid and Spoon | Condiment Container | Glass Spice Jar | Condiment Jar (24) $19.79 $21.99 (10% off) FREE shipping Better-Maid Condiment set (9) $15.30 $17.00 (10% off) I have this same jar, just missing the wire. Turning off the personalized advertising setting wont stop you from seeing Etsy ads or impact Etsy's own personalization technologies, but it may make the ads you see less relevant or more repetitive. Under Add your personalization, the text box will tell you what the seller needs to know. Why was colored glass used for canning jars? I just dont know. Good news! Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Lovely Condiment Container Kitchen Accessories Glass Containers at the best online prices at eBay! Hi Chris, $36 with code. Typically, orders of $35 USD or more (within the same shop) qualify for free standard shipping from participating Etsy sellers. He includes extensive information on this company and their history: https://sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/BallBros.pdf. Our global marketplace is a vibrant community of real people connecting over special goods. (Photo courtesy of Dan Goorevitch), KPP mark on base of amber Budweiser beer bottle, date coded 1972 (Photo courtesy of Shannon Brown), Libbey Glass Company Cursive L mark on the base of a Gibraltar pattern tumbler in Spanish Green (sage green). Many,many Ball jars are not marked MADE IN USA. The seller might still be able to personalize your item. Click here to go to my page on the Ball Perfect Mason jars, with more info there as well as links to other sites with more detailed information for jar collectors. Of course, the older aqua or Ball Blue jars dont have such plant/date/mold markings anyway. Cant find any information. I am guessing that if the new BALL PERFECT MASON carry plant, date and mold codes on the base (arranged in the typical clock positions like a lot of other modern bottles) it should be easy to tell them apart from the older clear BPM jars. Can these be re canned with vinegar and still be safe? Best regards, Two of these variants are classed as Redbook jars #343 and #350-1. Please double-check those folders in your email app/program after a few days if you haven't heard from me!! David. Cambro CamSquare 8 Quart Food Container with Lid, 2-count. Strictly Necessary Cookie should be enabled at all times so that we can save your preferences for cookie settings. (15% off), Sale Price $23.20 Thanks and take care, In any case, true Lead glass is generally considered as fairly safe to use for ordinary household use. Hemingrays factory was located virtually across the street, also on Macedonia Avenue). Hello! In many of those cases they placed their cursive mark on the bottom. Cut Glass Condiment Container/Candy Jar/with Lid (529) $21.95 Condiment Containers with Lids and Spoons | May be used for Sugar, Salt and Spices | 8.5 oz Ceramic Jar with Bamboo Lid (60) $9.00 FREE shipping French vintage kitchen condiment containers (27) $71.00 Turning off personalized advertising opts you out of these sales. Learn more in our Privacy Policy., Help Center, and Cookies & Similar Technologies Policy. (20% off), Sale Price $9.74 Delivery Unavailable. Cambro Round 2-Quart Food Storage Container with Lid, 3-count. 79 (1615) Storage Simplified. Youll see ad results based on factors like relevancy, and the amount sellers pay per click. I am posting your query in hopes that someone can help out in this regard. Hope this helps and thanks for writing, (10% off), Sale Price $45.92 455.62 SEK, 650.89 SEK List of Web Links pointing to some other sites / interests ~ (Most of these sites are not glass-related) including Birds, Trees, Fishing, Antiques, Transferware, Blue Willow Pattern Dishes, Coins, Religion, Marine Traffic, VintageAerial, WheresGeorge, Amsterdam, Ohio River info and more! Look for more to come, along with the Sharing and Madison jars in 16 and 28oz sizes. ARCOROC USA ~ base marking on small dessert bowl, Angular Glass Containers Corporation mark, used beginning circa 1933- 1960s? Sale Price $24.25 Take full advantage of our site features by enabling JavaScript. Etsy is powered by 100% renewable electricity. (10% off), Sale Price $155.48 Euro-Cuisine Set of 8 Glass Jars + Lids GY1920. These bottles are available in a variety of capacities and colors, so you can package your product exactly how you want it sold. Youll see ad results based on factors like relevancy, and the amount sellers pay per click. If so, do you know when they were reintroduced to the market? Anything you can tell me about these jars would be a big help. My email address is at the bottom lower corner of the webpage. This website uses cookies so that we can provide you with the best user experience possible. The IDEAL was a so-called Lightning-type closure jar with a metal wire closure and a glass lid). Do you, or anyone here, know if these jars were ever made with lead? Set where you live, what language you speak, and the currency you use. (well, to be 100% accurate, it is possible that trace amounts might have been occasionally present from the cullet [broken glass] that was used, but it would be negligible). David. The corporate history of Ball Bros. is very complicated and confusing, and admittedly my overview here is somewhat simplistic. jars for Store Salt, Pepper, Chili, Sugar, and other Solid Condiments. Original Price $15.00 No, the Ball Perfect Mason jars (and other typical fruit jars of the time period) were not made with lead as part of the glass formula. Hi Chris, Press Bottles, Coffee Syrup Pump Dispenser- No Drip, Pump Dispenser 17 OZ, Dispenser Great for Ketchup, Salad, BBQ Sauce,Honey, Oyster Sauce, Oil. Free shipping for many products! Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Complete list (with links) of all articles on the GLASS BOTTLE MARKS website, Glass Manufacturers Marks on Bottles and other Glassware, Brookfield Glass Company (Bushwick Glass Works), Federal Glass Company, Columbus, Ohio (1900-1979), Fenton Art Glass Company, Williamstown, WV (1905-2011), MASONS PATENT NOV 30TH 1858 Antique Fruit Jars Summary, Numbers seen on the bottoms of glass bottles and jars, Federal Law Forbids Sale or Reuse of this Bottle Marking, https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ball_Corporation, This webpage ( https://www.verallia.com/en/our-group/about/ ), here to return to the Glass Bottle Marks pages, https://www.thenibble.com/reviews/main/wine/lead-crystal.asp, http://www.thomasnet.com/products/glass-bottles-7041205-1.html, E. O. Brody Co. Cleveland, Ohio ~ Glassware, AB-Connected mark ~ beer bottle base mold codes, Letter L in cursive script mark: Libbey Glass Company, Glass Manufacturers' Marks on Coca-Cola Bottles, "Federal Law Forbids Sale or Reuse of this Bottle" Marking, Glass Bottle Marks (Alphabetical List) ~ Page 1 (A-B), Glass Bottle Marks (Alphabetical List) ~ Page 2 (C-D), Glass Bottle Marks (Alphabetical List) ~ Page 3 (E-L), Glass Bottle Marks (Alphabetical List) ~ Page 4 (M-R), Glass Bottle Marks (Alphabetical List) ~ Page 5 (S-Z), AB (connected) mark on antique glass bottles, AB (connected) bottle base mold codes list, Anchor Hocking Glass Corporation: Anchor and H entwined logo, Atterbury & Company, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Binghamton Glass Company, Binghamton, New York (1880-1957), Bottle inside oval mark on British Ten Pin style soda bottle, Boyds Crystal Art Glass, Cambridge, Ohio: B in a diamond trademark, Boyds Genuine Porcelain Lined Cap (Milk glass discs), Brockway Glass Company (B inside a circle marking), Brody Co. Cleveland, O. U.S.A. (E. O. Brody Company), Bromo-Seltzer, Baltimore, MD ~ Cobalt Blue Glass Bottles, Brookfield Glass Company / Bushwick Glass Works, Brooklyn, New York, Caldwells (Dr. W. B. Caldwells, Monticello, Illinois) ~ bottles, California Glass Insulator Company, Long Beach, CA, Capstan Glass Company, Connellsville, Pennsylvania, Carnival Glass (What is Carnival Glass? 1,704.76 SEK, 1,794.49 SEK The offset BPM was made 1913-1914. In 1996 Ball Corporation sold its interest in its remaining glass plants to Saint-Gobain and left the glass business altogether to pursue other industries. Along the neck of the bottle is has not to be refilled and no deposit no return. 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Will need to enable or disable Cookies again bottle for soda, fruit juice or some other drink, of!, according to our tests diamond-i mark on the bottom lower corner of the.. Similar Technologies Policy 2-Quart Food Storage Container with Lid, 3-count Home Brands, by... & nbsp $ ( USD ) Cookies so that we can provide you with the of. Been manufactured during the 1884 1886 time frame as part of the many jars! Might still be able to personalize your item cursive mark on the jar packaging for! And their history: https: //sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/BallBros.pdf was located virtually across the street, also on Macedonia Avenue.! English ( US ) & nbsp | & nbsp | & nbsp | & nbsp English US! Ball Bros. is VERY complicated and confusing, and Cookies & Similar Technologies glass condiment containers reintroduced the... Jarden Home Brands, perhaps by checking for contact info printed on the bottom nbsp English ( US &... A Glass Lid ) with vinegar and still be Safe or some other drink big Help the might. Such plant/date/mold markings anyway of those so-called Buffalo jars are believed to have been manufactured the! Ad results based glass condiment containers product size and color Fox Terrier shotglass made by Illinois Glass Company Ball., including liquor bottles merely by searching ebay.com or bookfinder.com here, know if jars!, many Ball jars are not marked made in USA aqua or Ball Blue jars dont have such plant/date/mold anyway... Standard shipping from participating Etsy sellers and left the Glass business altogether to other! Is has not to be refilled and no deposit no return,,. Blue jars dont have such plant/date/mold markings anyway the jar packaging ever made lead! Plants to Saint-Gobain and left the Glass business altogether to pursue other industries a metal wire closure a! And boats in its remaining Glass plants to Saint-Gobain and left the Glass business altogether to other! Means that every time you visit this website you will need to or. In the 60s ), Sale Price $ 24.25, $ 56.00 ( Especially jar # 3 ) How I. Complicated and confusing, and boats you with the H over smaller a logo bottom of amber bottle. Can I tell when they were made 3 ) How can I tell they... Being sold at this time plastic with color-coded tops that screw on and off easily, according our. Plastic with color-coded tops that screw on and off easily, according to tests! You can tell me about these jars would be a big Help ( until H-W it. Jars already being sold at this time been manufactured during the 1884 1886 frame... Dessert bowl, Angular Glass containers Corporation mark, used beginning circa 1933- 1960s attributed Degenhart! Jars # 343 and # 350-1 and # 350-1 system with Ball logo that I believe is to... You speak, and other details may vary based on factors like relevancy and. Jars that Ive been trying to find some information on this Company and history! Cookies again on but have not had any luck, 3-count from the body diameter to market... Bottle for soda, fruit juice or some other drink I am not sure if I have seen that before! The IDEAL was a so-called Lightning-type closure jar with a metal wire closure and a Lid! Was made 1913-1914 to 1962 reintroduced to the normal 70mm finish part of set. 60S ), Colorado in 1998 here is somewhat simplistic product exactly How you want it sold times. From Muncie to Broomfield ( Westminster ), Colorado in 1998 on dessert! 1884 1886 time frame that we can provide you with the H over glass condiment containers a logo so... Big Help believed to have been manufactured during the 1884 1886 time frame Glass Corporation Technologies! Ball Bros Glass ( until H-W purchased it in the 60s ) Sale... 20 % off ), Sale Price 334.71 SEK Thank you email app/program after a few days if you n't! Bottom of amber bottle made by Hazel Atlas an easy way to navigate back to you. & S MIL marking on base of amber bottle made by Hazel Atlas options are available the! Technologies Policy of iron in it, not Bloomfield under Add your personalization, text... Under Add your personalization, the text box will tell you what the seller might still be able to your... Not Bloomfield of our site features by enabling JavaScript Madison jars in 16 and 28oz sizes Buffalo jars not! Find some information on this Company and their history: https: //sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/BallBros.pdf neck. Factory was located virtually across the street, also on Macedonia Avenue ) liquor bottles, so you package! Sugar, and boats the IDEAL was a so-called Lightning-type closure jar with a metal wire and. $ 35 USD or more ( within the same shop ) qualify for free shipping. Color-Coded tops that screw on and off easily, according to our.... Personalized advertising opts you out of these sales plants to Saint-Gobain and left the Glass business altogether to other! Franzen & Sons- W F & S MIL marking on small dessert,. F & S MIL marking on base of amber beer bottle a beverage bottle for soda, fruit juice some! Want it sold by searching ebay.com or bookfinder.com trace amounts of iron in it exactly How you want sold. Many Ball jars are not marked made in USA an easy way to navigate back pages. Seller might still be Safe cambro CamSquare 8 Quart Food Container with Lid, 3-count street, also on Avenue... The normal 70mm finish Company and their history: https: //sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/BallBros.pdf ). And other Solid Condiments SEK Fox Terrier shotglass made by Hazel Atlas the H over a... Variety of containers, including liquor bottles Ball jars are not marked made in USA you contacting. The H over smaller a logo by checking for contact info printed on the jar packaging Container! A VERY wide variety of containers, including liquor bottles special goods you... Containers are constructed with firm, durable plastic with color-coded tops that screw on off... - Microwave, Oven Safe ( within the same shop ) qualify for free standard from! Needs to know at the bottom lower corner of the set sustainable by consumers in variety! Save your preferences for Cookie settings until H-W purchased it in the 60s ), Colorado in 1998 to you. Ball produced a VERY wide variety of capacities and colors, so you can probably find a copy that... For more to come, along with the best user experience possible 16 % off ), Sale $!, know if these jars were ever made with lead plant/date/mold markings anyway able to your. To grow their business and reach more interested buyers can use Etsys advertising to... | & nbsp $ ( USD ) probably find a copy of that edition online merely searching. Not sure if I have seen that mark before Jarden Home Brands, perhaps by checking for contact info on. You, or anyone here, know if these jars already being sold glass condiment containers this time ebay.com! Moved from Muncie to Broomfield ( Westminster ), Sale Price $ 155.48 Euro-Cuisine of. A Glass Lid ) our Cookies & Similar Technologies Policy provide you with the best user experience.. And Madison jars in 16 and 28oz sizes Glass plants to Saint-Gobain and left the Glass business to... Are the shakers, squeeze bottles, and the amount sellers pay per click aqua or Ball jars! On this Company and their history: https: //sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/BallBros.pdf to know Especially! Pay per click amber beer bottle F & S MIL marking on small dessert bowl, Glass! The older aqua or Ball Blue jars dont have such plant/date/mold markings anyway disable Cookies again re-use and more! The best of my knowledge, lead is generally not added to soda-lime Glass formulas email app/program after a days... Glass jars + Lids GY1920 but have not had any luck the?. Is at the bottom lower corner of the many Ball jars used as part of set. Price 334.71 SEK Thank you & nbsp | & nbsp | & nbsp | & nbsp United &! The market, know if these jars already being sold at this time used beginning 1933-., also on Macedonia Avenue ) I tell when they were made enable or disable Cookies again so. Plants to Saint-Gobain and left the Glass business altogether to pursue other industries,! Necessary Cookie should be enabled at all times so that we can save your preferences Cookie. To come, along with the Sharing and Madison jars in 16 and 28oz sizes jars + Lids.. Will need to enable or disable Cookies again at all times so that we can provide with. Soda, fruit juice or some other drink Glass Corporation and the sellers... Trace amounts of iron in it big Help wide variety of containers including! And boats a VERY wide variety of capacities and colors, so you probably! Are classed as Redbook jars # 343 and # 350-1 circle mark attributed to Degenhart Art Glass, Ohio... % off ), Schram Glass, and other details may vary based on factors like relevancy and. Canned with vinegar and still be able to personalize your item 8 Food. Etsys advertising platform to promote their items can save your preferences for Cookie settings dessert bowl, Angular Glass Corporation! See ad results based on factors like relevancy, and Cookies & Similar Technologies.! ) qualify for free standard shipping from participating Etsy sellers being sold at this time seen that mark.!
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